Bill Leduc Goes Deep: Are Sudbury Taxpayers Getting Value for Their Money?

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Hey everybody, it's Eric here from Love North and the municipal election is coming up soon. October, Monday, October the 26th and we're in Greater Sudbury and we have from Ward 11, the current Councillor, Bill the Duke in the house. Bill, good to see you. Good to see you too. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, it's, this is good for, you know, your, it's good for your ward. So first of all, where does your ward cover? What are the general boundaries? So, our ward goes from part of New Sudbury right through to Middle Lake. Okay. To give you the boundary lines, it's actually from Arthur Street to the west side of Burydown. Yeah. Straight up Burydown. It incorporates Silver Hills. Then it's from Bancroft on King's Way(...) right up to(...) the Curling Club(...) and then from the Curling Club all the way down to the Coniston Bypass. Okay. So it's, it's quite a large area. We roughly have a little 14,500 residents in the area.

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So yeah.

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So you've been on council for eight years.

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What causes you to run again?

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You know what?

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The main reason why I run is because I love helping the residents. Okay.

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You get phone calls every day(...) with various issues(...) and it's always nice to be able to be there and help the resident(...) get direction(...) and lead them in the right way(...) and look after them. Okay.(...) For the past eight years, that's what I've been doing. I've been available to my residents for seven days a week, 24 hours a day. My phone's with me at all times. I see you got two of them. Yes. Do all Councillors carry two?(...) I would say yes. Yeah. We have our city phone. Yeah. We have our personal phone. Okay.

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So I always have my two phones with me because, you know, you have your city number. Yeah. We're in elections now. You can't be using your city phone.(...) So you have to use your own personal phone. Okay. So I keep both phones on me at all times. Yeah.(...) And like I say, seven days a week, 24 hours a day. You're on like the fire, like the fire hall. Yes. I've received phone calls at three o'clock in the morning. Really? And people sit there and say, I didn't expect you to answer. Oh. I said, well, remember when I was running, I told you available seven days a week, 24 hours a day.

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So(...) the only time I'm unavailable is when I'm on the ground. Yeah. And then I do notice, you know, somebody has called or text, emailed me, whatever the case is, and I respond back to them(...) as soon as I can.(...) Okay. So(...) property taxes, it's always something that's going to come up no matter who you talk to. There was one of your constituents I sent a message to this morning. He's in the trades, the construction part of things. So he gave me two things. And one of them was the property taxes. And are we getting value for money at the end of the day?

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Well, again, you know, property taxes are always a touchy subject. Yeah. And you have to break it down as to(...) your services.(...) So your property taxes(...) go to your fire department. Yeah.(...) Your property taxes go to garbage collection. Your property taxes go to your infrastructure. A lot of people don't understand that, you know, you see the infrastructure on the road. Okay. Infrastructure. Sidewalks. Yeah, okay. Yeah. The infrastructure they don't see(...) is the water and all the infrastructure underneath the ground. Correct. Okay.

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Now, we do have a separate category for that, which is our water and wastewater,(...) which you pay for. Okay.

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So, yeah, those taxes are always a complicated thing.

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And, you know, people sometimes sit there and say, well, you know what, I don't use the arena, so why am I paying for that arena?

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But these are things that we have that we offer the public.(...) Same thing as your libraries, you know,(...) that we have to pay for.(...) And(...) so, it depends on exactly what part of your taxes you want to talk about,(...) then I can sit there and really break it down for you(...) in that aspect.

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Okay.

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As for(...) buildings, when we have(...) new investment coming into town or a resident wants to actually build something,(...) this is the same question that I had earlier today from the same fellow. And it was that,(...) well,(...) there's too much red tape. Red tape is a big, that just covers a large portion. But,(...) you know, the time in order to get the approval of some of the projects done, whether it be on the private side, is there any way that that can be sped up? Is there a process that could happen or is it realistic, reasonable for someone to wait six months, maybe, for a building permit?

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And again, normally, we have a portal that, you know, residents can(...) fill out their paperwork and submit their paperwork to the portal.(...) Then our engineering staff or planning staff receive the application, they review the application. We try to have a turnaround within 30 days. 30 days. Again, it depends on the type of bill that you're looking to do. If it's just a simple building or garage, you can estimate about 30 days.

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If it's a rezoning application,(...) then it's along the process.(...) There's a lot more detail that has to go into it.

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And yes, that's, again, it's along the process.(...) Really, the only way to(...) combat that is to have more staff.

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More staff downtown at City Hall? More staff downtown in our planning department(...) that can actually(...) go through these applications and bring them forward. So(...) that would, like,(...) so we(...) don't have enough staff in the planning department to process these things?

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And again, we have a short window. Yeah. Okay. A short season for building.

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So if you're planning on(...) doing a rezoning application. Yeah, that could take a long time. Then that could take up to close to a year. Okay. So you want to plan that out.

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And(...) you want to work with an agent that(...) knows the different(...) bylaws. Okay.

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And criteria. And we have some great agents out there. You know, like J.L. Richards and, and, and, uh, uh, tele-engineering. You know, these companies are well-established, Dave Dorlin. Um, and they know the system. So that, you know, when you're, when you're working with those companies,(...) you don't get preferred treatment,(...) but they know the system. Okay. Uh, and, and the applications become a more complete application. So they know how to navigate? Exactly. Okay. Um, in your ward, ward 11,(...) there's been some, uh, chatter about the rodent situation that, uh, that's happening. Uh, when it comes to emergency preparedness, I know there was another, uh, candidate that had mentioned the city may not be adequately prepared for emergencies and such as the flooding that did happen in the spring, the spring runoff. And now we have, well, you have rodents in some of the neighborhoods or some of the, some of your city streets.

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What, uh, oh, and then of course, um,(...) you know,(...) conducting a, uh, a feasibility, not a, uh, a- A survey? Yeah, or a feasibility study about, um,(...) no, it was something else. That's not the right word. It started with- We did, so we did a, a survey. Um, and, and I want to thank, uh, Mrs. McBride for coming forward. That, that actually, uh, took care of that. Um, so we, we did a, a study. Uh, so wherever you lived, uh, you wrote down your address and that. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then that way there, we could pinpoint the hotspots throughout the area. Um,(...) because I do know that tonight we do have a, a motion, uh, coming forward, uh, regarding the right of station.(...) And everybody thinks that, uh, this is going to be a, a lengthy study. Uh-huh. We're going out to hire a consultant. We're not. Okay. Okay. Um, this is information and, and we just had a meeting last night at the Royal Canadian Legion. And again, I want to thank the Royal Canadian Legion. Uh, which branch? Uh, branch 76. Where is it? Where is it? Weller Street. Oh yeah, Weller. With the tank up the hill. Yes. Um, they, they, they are very community minded. Uh, they allowed us to have a town hall meeting there, uh, for your charge.

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Um,(...) and we brought, uh, the CEO, uh, and we brought the health department and we brought, brought a pest control company.(...) Uh, and about 150 residents showed up to that meeting. Okay. It was well attended.

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Um, and we discussed the rat(...) problem. Uh, so it was a very, uh, informational session. Okay. Uh, so people walked away knowing how to handle a rat now. Okay. Uh, you just don't pick it up out of the, out of the trap and throw it in the garbage. Okay. Um, there's a process on how to handle it, how to bag it, that sort of stuff. Um,(...) you know, we talked about, uh, sealing up the cracks around your foundation and that any openings in your house could be a dryer event, making sure those are properly sealed, uh, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but we are going to have this motion, uh, tonight that's going to address, uh, the concerns of the residents. Um, and our, uh, CO(...) identified and has already spoken with, with our roads department, uh, talking about cutting, uh, the grass in, in pathways, uh, and trails, that sort of stuff that connect to the different neighborhoods. Um, she's talked about, uh, potentially cutting the grass and the ditches, which that was a concern brought up. These are good hiding spots for the rats. Um, and that, you know, the, the green bin, uh, which basically 40 to 50% of the residents in, in our work are using. Uh, so if we can get the green bins up, uh, that is going to help, uh, you know, deter the rats because(...) you take all your organic, you trim in that green bin, that green bin gets collected once a week. Yeah. Yeah. Um,(...) so again, that will help, uh, deter, uh, rats coming into your place. Uh, again, we talked about yard standards. Uh, we talked about, you know, bylaw taking a more active approach, uh, moving forward.(...) What would, what would bylaw have to do with this?(...) Oh, in the grass and the yard maintenance? And again, we have bylaws for, uh,(...) yard standards. Okay. Property standards.

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And, uh, so you'll have people that don't cut grass. Yeah. Okay. Well, again, if you're not cutting your grass, it's a good place for the rodents(...) to grow into. Yeah. And, uh, you can have your lawn nice and manicured and(...) your neighbor isn't doing their job. Uh,(...) so we're talking about, uh, bylaw being more proactive rather than, uh, having to wait to be, uh, called, you know, uh, because a lot of neighbors don't feel comfortable calling, calling 311.

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Uh, because it's kind of like(...) riding out your neighbor. Oh yeah. Yeah. So if we can get bylaw out there and even our city staff as they're driving in and back and forth to work, uh, you know, we've got staff that live all over the city.

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You know, uh, just making note and passing along to their superior. Their superior can pass along to their, to, uh, our bylaw department. Uh, our bylaw, they can go and do an investigation. Uh,(...) so, you know, normally the way bylaw works is that it's complaint driven. So bylaw will then show up at your door. Uh, they will educate you. Okay. Um, and they, they will make the recommendations to you as to what you need to do. Uh, then they'll return on the second visit to see if you move forward with that. Uh-huh. Uh, it's a lengthy process. Um, and then eventually if you haven't, uh, fulfilled what you've been asked to do, uh, we will then send a contractor in and clean up what we have to clean up. And we will send the bill to the resident.(...) If the resident doesn't pay it, pay the bill. That bill will then go on to your tax bill. Okay. So we will recoup the money, uh, eventually. Uh,(...) again, it's a lengthy process. Um,(...) but if we can start(...) with these small steps moving forward to help, uh, things, um, you know, we, we can't control the, the riding position. Um,(...) one of, uh, our residents last night brought up, uh, the idea of, uh, birth control. Mm-hmm. Okay. For the rats. Mm-hmm.

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Uh,(...) something like that would help. Okay. Um, so there, there was all kinds of(...) good ideas last night. Okay. That, uh, I think we'll be talking about tonight at, at council.(...) Um, because again, uh, you know, this riding station just is an exclusive to Ward 11.(...) We're seeing this throughout the city now.(...) So it's spreading? It's spreading.

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So what, what are the neighborhoods or what are the streets as it's spreading to you? Like(...) that, that you know of?(...) It's getting wider? So we've gotten reports from the valley. Or? Uh, we've gotten reports from Garson. Okay. Uh, we've gotten reports from, uh, New Sudbury. Yeah. Okay. Um,(...) I've seen reports from, from, uh, you know,(...) the natural area. Okay. Um, again, downtown, you know. So it's all over. Um,(...) you know, uh, Ward 11 has, has a, uh, a great following, uh, with, uh, what's going on in Middle Lake. Yep. Okay. Uh, it's been a great tool.

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So it's really brought emphasis to this situation. Um, whereas other wards may not have that social media aspect of it. Mm-hmm. So kind of goes unheard. Is there any idea of why this is happening?(...) Again, we're, you know what? I think last night with the meeting, uh, was the first(...) major step. Okay. Uh, tonight will be technically the second step where there'll be some direction given, uh, to our staff to coordinate a team, um, to bring them together and, and figure out what's going on. What we can do. Um, you know, are we going to be able to pinpoint the source?

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I highly doubt it, but if we can, that's great. Okay.(...) Um, but, you know, uh,(...) we want to, we want to control this infestation, get it under control.(...) Um,(...) and, and(...) get everybody enjoying their yards again. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Enjoying their gardening.

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Okay. Uh, moving along. Eight years of experience. What, um,(...) what needs, not necessarily what needs to change, but how can things be made better as for(...) how things are functioning down at City Hall?(...) Like that's, is there something that can be streamlined? And again, uh, that's a great question.(...) I think right now, uh, what you're seeing, one of the biggest hot, hottest topics, um, you know, is, is a homeless situation downtown. Yeah. Um, everybody feels unsafe in going downtown. This is a situation.

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Um, we, as counsel, uh, basically spend $16 million a year on homelessness. And that's $16 million just as a municipal money. That's money coming in from the province and from, from the federal government. Where does the money go though? Does it go into agencies? So there's, yes. So again, uh, we have different organizations that(...) get money and, and, uh, they provide services and that sort of stuff.(...) Um, but the thing is, is that(...) for the eight years that I've been on council, okay, we actually be doing the same thing over and over and over again.

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But the results now are getting(...) bigger.(...) Okay. Better is like, uh, positive? Worse. Worse. Um, so I remember when, when, uh, I was my first term on council, uh, we, we probably had somewhere in the neighborhood, five, six hundred homeless people, you know, in our community. Um, now, uh, we're talking roughly between 1200 to 1500 people in, in Sudbury, in Sudbury.(...) Uh, and again, it all depends on how you consider homelessness. Yeah. Okay.

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So, and(...) we do, uh,(...) a point count every month. Okay. So if, if that person doesn't want to count it,(...) they're not registered. Okay.

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If a person's coach surfacing, coach surfing,

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they're technically not considered homeless, but they are. Okay. Uh, so the situation has gotten worse.

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Um, do people have the option to be counted or not counted? Exactly.

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People do have that option.

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And you'll notice with a lot of homeless people, um, someone don't want to be counted.(...) Okay. Um, they want to be left alone.

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Um,(...) you know, the ones that do want to be counted are the ones that want to help. Okay. Um, you got to remember that, uh,(...) you know, there's a reason why they were homeless. Um, and there's a, uh, a number of factors that are involved. Uh,(...) and everybody says, sits there and says, well, let's, let's house. Uh, sometimes you just, it's not as easy as saying here, we're going to ride your house. Okay. It's a lot more complicated than that. Yeah. From what I understand, sometimes they don't, you could set someone up in an apartment and then they'll end up leaving the apartment because their people are back on the streets and that's where they want to be. They're lonely in the apartments. Yes. Uh, yeah. That's a true story. I've encountered that. I've seen, uh, seen it where we we've housed a person and exactly what you said. Uh, their friends are back out on the street. That's their family. They want to back out there supporting them and they'll resort back to being homeless. Uh, but you also have to understand that, um, it's a complicated situation is that(...) when a person becomes homeless, okay. Um,(...) they may have already been in housing(...) and they fell behind on their rent or they fell behind on their utilities.

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So that bill still exists.(...) So you just can't take them now and put them back into housing until you clear up that past.

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And we all know that with the amount of money that they make(...) or get, uh, it's not enough to clear up the bills. So then we have different pockets of money that we can pull from as a city and start clearing up those, those bills for them and then get them into programs and then get them into housing. But again, the proper housing that we have to look at is supportive housing. Okay. So we got to make sure that when we get them into housing that they have the supports to keep them in housing.

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And with the homeless,(...) you know, we just sit there and say, okay, well, you know, we got your laundry here. We got to cook. We got to take a shower.

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The basic things that we understand(...) the homeless(...) have gotten and you have to retrain.

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Okay. So it's a long process. What about the open drug use that's a, that can happen. You know, sometimes I'll go down whatever street it is and you might see a zombie crossing the road hunched over and they don't give them kudos for being able to touch their toes. Even I can't do that anymore.

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But and then sometimes they're curled up and, you know, it's still out there.

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What's the deal with that?

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And again,(...) the open drug use, I mean, that has to be eliminated. Totally. Okay.

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You and I(...) out on the street with a beer,(...) we would be arrested or fined whatever the case may be. So what's really the difference if someone, you know, in(...) I remember in some there's no difference. There's no difference.(...) So if I can't have a beer, a beer on the street. Yeah. One,(...) it's not socially acceptable.

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Yeah. Okay. Is that it's illegal? Yeah. Yeah.(...) So if if it's legal for me. Yeah.(...) I can't have a double standard. So I have to I have to enforce both standards. Okay.

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So you have to(...) implement the law.(...) Now. You(...) know, in implementing the law.

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Sounds like a horrible thing, but.

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You know.

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If we're going to send a message(...) to the province and to the(...) government,(...) then we have to be out there(...) putting them in front of the justice system. Okay.

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I know the justice system sits there and says, listen, we don't want to deal with it. Mm hmm. Okay. So stop wasting our time.

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But if we're going to send the message and we're going to send a strong message,(...) then we have to enforce the law. To those to the open drug use. Everybody.

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Yeah. Because walking down the street with a beer, I don't think that it might happen. I've I haven't seen it. And it's just something you you just don't do. No. And I mean, again,(...) you know,(...) we know better not to be around the street. With an open beer. Okay.(...) These people, unfortunately, have addictions and mental health issues.

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And when they need their fix or whatever, maybe they need it now. Mm hmm. And they're going to do it now. And that's it. So it's unfortunate. Okay.

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But we have to(...) take more control.

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And start making these arrests. Okay. And putting them(...) in front of the courts. Okay.

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And then letting the courts decide what the next step is. The jails are full. So they say the jails and putting the only(...) way(...) that you're you're going to send your message.

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Is through the province.

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Because the province, we have a provincial jail downtown. Correct. Okay. So if they're sitting there saying the jails are full.(...) Then a expand the jails.(...) B.

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Bring in additional services.

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That support.

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The addicts. Okay. Support the mental health issues. Okay.

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And that's the way you're going to get your message there. I mean, yes, we can go to conferences. We can talk to the different ministers.(...) Okay. That's like talking to a rubber duck. Exactly.

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So the strongest message you can send is.

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Arrest. Let. Let the judgment determination.

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And there you go. Yeah. I mean. It's definitely a long process. It's a long process. But I think it's we're at a point where I mean we as a municipality can't do it. On ourselves. Okay.

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Because.

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You know, when everybody talks about, well, let's do this.

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You're asking for your tax actually. Well.

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Because if the province doesn't bring the money. It's got to come from somewhere. Somewhere. And that's us. Okay. And we just can't afford to keep going in that direction. Without the provincial and federal help.(...) Now, I know earlier you said that the. Or you had mentioned that the budget for 2027 is already set. Yes.

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So our budgets already done. For.

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2027. What do you do in December? So the new fiscal year starts in December. Well, we sit down and start.

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Reviewing our budget. Okay.

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And it should be done.

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About mid December. When does it actually kick in. December. January 1st. Then your budget doesn't actually kick in until April. Okay. So it goes April to April. Right. Okay.

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Our fiscal year.(...) Goes from. You know, January one till December 31st. Okay. Okay. Then we start our new year that way. But before you start seeing your tax increases. Yeah. They'll start coming up in April. Okay. So next April is when things get.(...) Your new budget. The increases. Okay.

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Are we kicking the can down the road on things?

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Absolutely. I mean, this past. This past budget in 2026 was what I call an election budget. Okay. That sounds good.

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We bought. Town.

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The budget.

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How. By using our reserves. So now going into this budget. Okay. That money that we bought down is now going to come forward.(...) In the 2027 budget. So. Now we're not looking at this 5.7% budget. We're looking more at.(...) A 78% budget. Okay. Then you've got business cases on top of that.(...) So you could be potentially looking at.

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Or 20.

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To 9.5% budget. Is that realistic? That's out. So hang on before we go there. What is the. Increase that is in this current budget. That we're currently living through. You know, property taxes are supposed to be all be paid up by now. 3.9. 3.9. So that's the magic number.(...) Plus your education tax. So your education tax is separate from then your property taxes. Okay. But the city's portion was 3.9. The city's portion was 3.9%. And because it was an election budget. Per se. Or not.

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Moneys were.(...) Taking from the reserves. And put into. The overall pot. And then looking at what needs to be done. The number came to 3.9. 3.9. But now the election budget's gone. And we're back to reality. We're. So in December we're going to come back to reality. Yeah. Okay.(...) And it's one thing that. And depending on how this. Election plays out. Oh yeah. Okay. And I.

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I informed.(...) People that. You know we're going to have to delay that budget. The one for 27 coming up. 2027. So we don't have to pass it December. Okay. You have until April correct or their boats. Yeah. So we can postpone that budget until say February. Okay. Why would you postpone it? Well because you're going to have some new Councillors coming on board. Yeah you're going to have a bunch of new ones. And you're going to want to be able to sit with those Councillors. And go over that budget review with them.

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And see what's important to them in the constituents. Okay.

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And then try and work your way back from that.(...) Okay. So you want to give.(...) You want to give those from Councillors. Yeah.

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Attention to the mayor. Yeah. Opportunity to review the current budget.

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Sit with staff. See where we can find efficiencies.

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Have time to bring your emotions forward. Okay.

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And then sit down and pass your budget. So it's a process. Let's go on an off ramp here.

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A lot of the city staff, are they getting close to retirement age?(...) Or is it always constant? Well it's always constant. And we do have(...) an older workforce. Yeah.

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Okay. But(...) we're always constantly hiring.

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Okay. Hang on. Before we get into hiring. If we want to bring down wages, which takes up about 42% the last time I checked. I checked maybe the 23 or 24 budget somewhere around there. And it was, it was a consistent, about 42% of the overall budget went to city wages.

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Do we need all these people downtown? Like they're great people doing great jobs, but do we need everyone there? And is there some redundancy?(...) And again, this is where that budget comes into effect is that you're going to look at everything. You're going to look at your operating costs dictate(...) most of your budget. The operating cost.(...) Okay. So in the operating costs, that's where you're talking about your wages. Okay.

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Are there positions that are redundant? Okay.

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And you can look at that.

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Can you reduce wages? No. No, you can't reduce wages. Most of the employees are unionized. Yep.

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And that's not going to happen. Okay.(...) Can you find efficiencies within that department?

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Any more like you can.(...) We will put a moratorium on hiring of someone. So let's say someone retires. So out there is what's known as the super seven, seven top managers of the city. They're referred to as the super seven. One of them retired in the last two years.(...) And I don't, I don't know what that position has been refilled or if it's been filled, but you know, when there is a retiree, does the position need to be reef?

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You know, do we need to refill it? Can we find the efficiencies for maybe five people(...) to take on the jobs of the six people that were there before in the, in the area? Like, is that, is that possible? And my numbers might be off on this. And again, anything's possible. Yeah.

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And that's where the experience comes in(...) is that you have to look at the department.

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And you've got to see if you can take departments and bring them together. So instead of having two separate departments, you bring two departments together, create one department where you're going to find efficiencies.

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Now, keep in mind that these are employees of the city.(...) They are taxpayers. Okay. So in(...) a lot of cases, you know, right now we're,(...) the mining sector is booming.(...) Yeah. So we're having a hard time, for example, getting mechanics.

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For every, for the city infrastructure, city, like buses,(...) equipment, graders, loaders, whatever, dump trucks. So we're, we're having a, we're struggling to get(...) mechanics because the mining sector is grabbing them. Okay. So in order to compete against the mining sector, you have to(...) bump the wages. Exactly.(...) The, the auto industry is having the same, the same challenge where the auto, you know, auto mechanics are going to the mines because the mines seems to be where the gold rush is.

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And it probably is. So, you know,(...) there's a lot of things that you have to look at and you have to consider.

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But again, it's, it's finding those efficiencies.

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And that's why I say that,(...) and you do that through your budget. Okay. Not, not sit there and say you can't find efficiencies throughout the year.

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But you have staff there that that's part of their job is to find those efficiencies. But as directors of the city,(...) it's also our responsibility(...) to be overseeing and really digging into that budget(...) to sit there and say, well, do you really need that bill?

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Does that happen in reality?

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No, because(...) when I do that, I get slapped on the wrist because everybody(...) knows you get slapped here and there.(...) I mean, that's what I'm elected for.(...) Okay. So to do this kind of stuff, the last election, there was some counselors that got in and, you know, I see them campaigning and I thought, oh yeah, they're going to, they might do a really good job. And then it seems like, you know, they'll tow the party line, drink the Kool-Aid and just go with it. Is it easier? Well, it's always going to be easier. It's always easier to follow the crowd than to stand out.(...) And you strike me as someone who, well, you're always ruffling feathers. You're not in my(...) ward,(...) but I see you as a guy who ruffles feathers. Yes.

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So I'm the guy that has a voice and I stand up and I represent my people.

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And this past term,(...) I just didn't have to(...) represent more love.(...) I started having to represent a lot of the constituents around the city.

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Why? Well,(...) I'm the prime example with the arena. Oh yeah, the arena is, it's awesome.

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You know, we're spending $200 million. We have a budget of $200 million.

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We know right now we're over the $200 million budget. How far into the weeds are you over?

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Or(...) is that number not known right just yet? So the budget is $200 million and I use the word budget. Yeah. B-U-D-G-E-T. Budget doesn't mean it's coming in at $200 million. Budget means it can go over $200 million. Okay.

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And we already spent $20 million on... Consultants? No, on purchasing the land for the arena, which isn't part of the budget. It's not part of it? No. So you spent $20 million on that? We spent $20 million on that part. So really you're at $220 million. Then we spent another $10 million on upgrading Elgin Street,

(...)

which had to be upgraded in order to support the new event center. So now you're at $230 million.(...) Then we had to spend another $5 million(...) on Shaughnessy Street. Yeah. Once again to bring in the services. Okay. Okay.

(...)

So we're at $235 million. We're at $235 million.

(...)

Then we were supposed to borrow $135 million(...) with the amount of money that we had for the $200 million. Hang on. Now I'm... But we found $45 million mysteriously. Okay. So now we don't have to borrow that for... So we're only borrowing $89.5 million.

(...)

But we have a safe haven over here to go out and borrow the extra $45 million. So when you add all that up... Okay. What's the final number? Right now I'm at $235 million. $235? $275. Oh, $275. Okay. And still counting because there's going to be other things to come forward. There's always other things that come in. In construction,(...) you know, it's better to spend an extra little bit to get that extra feature that if you don't do it now, you'll never get it and you'll probably regret it. However, you're at $275.

(...)

I know one of the other candidates said that most of the contracts were signed and it was coming in at $200.(...) So the other Councillor(...) said that we have committed... Committed. Okay.

(...)

And I'm not sure how you(...) can commit(...) to purchasing cement. Mm-hmm. On a(...) proposed(...) build.

(...)

Okay. So we haven't seen a final design. We haven't? No. Have you? No. Okay. All I see is boards up around downtown and there's some little place. But all I've been asking for a final design. So... I've been asking for a class B estimate,(...) which a class B estimate would have told us,(...) would have brought us very close(...) to what the Iran would cost. So a class B estimate is pretty close within 5%? Plus or minus? Yeah. So it's pretty accurate. Yeah.(...) And that still has not been... has that been revealed to Council yet? Nothing. Who has it?

(...)

The engineering firm? Somebody has it. I don't have it. Well, you're on Council. How can you not have it? Exactly. So how can I agree to something? It's like signing a blank check. Well, yeah. You don't want to do that. No. No. I don't.

(...)

I've been given a blank check with the signature on it, but immediately I'll write void on it so that they can't go and easily do whatever someone wants to do it just in case it got lost. But that...(...) the blank check is... it's a bad idea.

(...)

So they're working on the arena.

(...)

A lot of the pile... piles are in the ground.

(...)

How's that part going from what you know?

(...)

Again,(...) you know, the micropiles(...) are, I guess, somewhat complete. I'm really not 100% sure because there's supposed to be caps put on these.

(...)

When you say a cap, what do you mean a cap? So you put your pile in there, then they have to be kept. Oh, yeah. Okay. And the cap keeps them solid. Okay. So you've got four pylons and then those four pylons are capped. Okay.

(...)

There's a... there's a waterway that runs under there. Junction Creek. Junction Creek. Yes. And the waterway runs under City Hall. Yes. Does City Hall move?

(...)

Well, and again, our... our garage...

(...)

Where's the garage? So that's underground. Oh, yeah. At City Hall. And that's a floating slab.

(...)

That floor is a floating slab. Okay. So, and again, you know, Town View Square was built on micropiles. Mm-hmm. The School of Architecture was built on micropiles. Mm-hmm. Okay.(...) Both went over costs. They did? They did. How did that happen?

(...)

Again, it was,(...) you know,(...) you're drilling. I mean, you can put a cost together. Mm-hmm.(...) And say, you know, here, I can get the job for this. But, you know, in that contract, you're going to have language that sits there and says, but, you know, if we have to do more, we expect to get paid more. So, the same thing is, if I get to grow the extra footage, I'm charging the extra footage. Mm-hmm. So, to the best knowledge that I have at this point in time, and it's right there in the... in the book,(...) the foundation work was $18 million.

(...)

The contract for the foundation for the micropiles was $11 million. So, that leaves you with $7 million left(...) to do all the cement work. With that cement work, you have rebar.

(...)

You have finishing the cement.

(...)

To the finished product. That's right.

(...)

So, if you're managing the project, okay,(...) and you had a budget project, a budget of $18 million,(...) and(...) you sit there and say, okay, $18 million for the foundation,

(...)

and you get that foundation complete and you find out that you're over budget on that,(...) what does that tell you about the rest of it?(...) It's not a good direction. It's like you're walking... it's like you're trying to go to Vancouver. It's like you're trying to drive to Vancouver and you're going to Newfoundland. Right.

(...)

Opposite direct... well, it's just not in the right direction from what I gather. So, if you were building a house,(...) and you went and said to the builder, "Listen,(...) I want a house..." Let's make it simpler. Let's make it a dog house. Let's say we're building a dog house, okay? House has got to get too complicated. Let's say you're building a dog house that's 6 feet by 6 feet, a square box. Let's start with that. Okay. So, he went and said, "Hey, I want to build this dog house, and here's $100 for you to build that dog house." The contractor says, "Yeah, sure. I can build that." Okay. And(...) he comes back and gives you a square box.

(...)

And he said, "Well, hang on. I want a dog house. There's no opening on the dog house.(...) I expected windows."

(...)

Yeah, but was that in the design? And again,(...) so you've got a(...) build design... Yeah.

(...)

...that nobody's seen.

(...)

Okay. You've seen a conceptual design,(...) but you haven't seen a final design. So, you haven't seen the final design on paper. I haven't seen it.

(...)

I just don't understand why. You would... I would think, and I would want to see it before they actually

(...)

get going with it.(...) Who's pushing this?(...) Or... Okay, so I'm going to bring you down the KED. The KED... Yep.

(...)

The KED.(...) Looking back,(...) did Council get it right as for, "Okay, we're going to build the arena downtown versus the KED"? I remember...(...) Oh, okay. So, there was a concert. It was Blue Rodeo. It went to Blue Rodeo,(...) parked up where they do the farmer's market on Thursdays.

(...)

And trying to get out of there with a vehicle was... It took a little while. You know, you had to wait, and you had to wait a little bit more. So, I thought, "Well, what if this is also at the KED? What if the arena's at the KED?" Because some people had mentioned getting... Like, downtown, you can disperse in every direction, okay? To get away from any(...) event, hockey game, concert, whatever. At the KED, you're basically going left or right. You could go straight across if you're into Middle Lake and dip into there.

(...)

However,(...) did Council get it right as for moving forward with the arena? Like, is this, say, an election issue? Or what's the cause? Again,(...) you know, if(...) you look at where we are right now with the arena... Yeah. Okay?

(...)

And I think(...) the citizens have a chance to still pivot, okay, from what we're doing. I'm not going to sit here and say that, you know, bringing an arena over here is the right idea. Yeah. Okay?(...) We have other factors that we have to look at right now.

(...)

We have our roads, our infrastructure, number one.

(...)

So, maybe the ship is sailed at this point in time for a new arena. I mean, that's up to the residents to determine that.

(...)

But I do know that, you know,(...) in 2023, we had a report come to operations, you know, identified $800 million deficit. $800 million. $800 million deficit. For the city of Sudbury? Yes. So, this is why we had come out with a 1.5 special tax levy. That special tax levy was dedicated to roads.

(...)

That was to help narrow that gap.

(...)

Okay?

(...)

And now that 1.5 special levy(...) has been renamed(...) for special projects.

(...)

Still the same levy, but it's been(...) relabeled? Being relabeled. So, those special projects will go for new projects such as(...) new firehalls, for example. Okay?(...) Middle Lake(...) Fire Hall, $10 million.

(...)

The Garst Fire Hall, $9 million. Is this to build a new one? Yes. In each of those areas? Each of those areas.

(...)

Then there's the Van Horn Fire Station downtown.(...) $16 million renovations.(...) Isn't it better to just... Is that a renovation? For 16... Or is that going to be a new build because if I'm building a Middle Lake Station... That's right. ...and the Garst Station... Yeah. That's $19 million.

(...)

Why can't I just build a new station downtown?

(...)

I think it... That's better money. Okay. So, I know(...) Fire Hall versus an arena. It seems like the Fire Hall, just start a new one, would be better. The arena issue,(...) starting a new arena versus whatever other options out there, that's a little more complicated issue. But when it comes to the Fire Hall, it sounds like the Fire Hall downtown maybe should just be(...) rebuilt. Especially since the other two locations are, I would say, reasonable.

(...)

Again,(...) that's the tax credit's choice.(...) When(...) you're doing these major projects, you have to go back to(...) your constituents(...) and inform your constituents what's going on.

(...)

Because these are big financial decisions(...) that could put you in debt(...) before just not you in debt, but it's going to put your children and grandchildren in debt. And that's another... When you look at the revitalization of the downtown,(...) it's just not the arena.

(...)

It's everything else that goes around your downtown.

(...)

And that is a billion dollars for people. So you're just not putting yourself in debt, you're putting your children in debt. Future generations. And your grandchildren in debt before you get that paid off.

(...)

That's a big nut to crack. Exactly.

(...)

So, going back to the property taxes, you said that(...) this year it was at 3.9. Right.

(...)

The city portion. The city portion. I don't know what the education portion was. But anyways, the city portion 3.9, and you're saying that the money was borrowed from(...) the reserves. Not borrowed. Taken out of our reserves.

(...)

So, for next year,(...) what if the money is not... has the reserves been replenished yet? No. So they're empty. Yeah.(...) Okay. So, when deliberating for next year's budget for the year 2027,(...) are we going to... is it possible since you can't borrow from anywhere such as the reserves, is it possible that the 3.9 could be blown over(...) a few points?

(...)

Like...

(...)

No, there isn't. 3.9 was this year. This year. What are we looking at(...) next year? Six, seven, eight? This year we're starting at 5.7. Starting... Remember the money that we took. Yeah. Out of our reserves. Yeah. To bring that...

(...)

Our current... Bring that budget down. Yeah. Now has to come back forward again, which is going to put you at that 78% starting point and add in your business cases, you could be well into 9.9% who knows. Okay.

(...)

So, now you have to find(...) the efficiencies(...) without reducing services.

(...)

Okay. So all new council members are going to have quite the task ahead of them. Exactly. So it's...(...) You want to make sure that you have the right person in there,(...) okay, that understands us,

(...)

because this(...) next four years(...) is critical. It's almost pivotal, especially what's going... with the extra things that's going on in the outside world today. Exactly.

(...)

Is the city using AI in any fashion? No. You know, I'm just... I'm throwing that out there and... Yeah, because that's my knowledge at this point in time, though. We don't have AI.

(...)

We do have a great IT team. Okay. Yeah.

(...)

And there's another cause that, you know, people don't talk about in your taxes(...) is our IT team(...) that has to protect all that information, all that data(...) that we have(...) from cyber attacks. Correct. Okay.(...) And that's something that the Department of Taxpayer doesn't see, but we as a municipality have to protect that and our IT(...) team does a great job in that. Yeah.

(...)

Now you have to protect that information because if it ever got...(...) if it ever got encrypted and someone's holding the key, so for anyone that's in IT, keep doing those backups. And the worst type of backup is when your data is being poisoned slowly. So that, let's say over the course of a year, you're po... someone's gotten in, some rogue actor, they get in and they start poisoning the data and you're still doing your backups.

(...)

But when you get to the point where, okay, now it's totally garbage, you go to your backups. Your backups are also garbage. Yeah. So you got to really be careful with that.

(...)

Any closing words that you want to let your constituents know about why they should, you know, put you in the hot seat again for the third term? And again, you know what, I've been a strong voice.

(...)

I've been there. I've backed my constituents 100%.

(...)

I fought(...) the different battles(...) throughout the past four years and the four years prior to that,(...) I've never wavered on my stance.

(...)

And you know what, these next four years moving forward are going to be very crucial.(...) Okay. And if we don't control it right now and(...) I'm sitting there saying that(...) this past four years, was out of control. How was it out of control? Just the spending was ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, it was spent, spent, spent. Where were the savings? What changed in this past four years that was different from the previous four years?

(...)

I can ask you because you've been sitting there. You've seen it. I mean,(...) and again, I'll just come straight over and say it is that(...) the focus was on downtown. Yeah. Okay.

(...)

Everything went downtown. Everything? Like all resources? Yeah. But not everyone lives downtown. That's right. You know, you got people out in the back and on a ping of Beaver Lake and even Capri all Capri all's Capri all's out there. It's a great little self sufficient community.

(...)

You know, I think they have everything that they need,(...) but why would they put everything in all the resources into downtown? Like(...) when you come into the, I don't go through downtown very often unless I have to go from point A to point B.(...) But why would they, whoever, why would all the resources go towards, or not all, why would a majority,(...) how, yeah, why would a majority of resources go downtown and what are we actually seeing for it?

(...)

Well, at this point in time, we're seeing no return on the money. I can tell you that.

(...)

And you know what?

(...)

The outskirt residents(...) haven't been heard. Okay.

(...)

They have their wants and needs,(...) just like everybody else does.

(...)

But they haven't been heard. Okay.

(...)

And that's why I say, you know,(...) I fought for my residents.

(...)

I helped support other area residents. Okay.

(...)

So I just think it's important that, you know, ask these questions come election time. Don't be shy. Okay.

(...)

Make sure you've got the right answer.

(...)

Because this is an important election(...) that I think is(...) going to(...) either benefit it or hurt it. And I think right now that,(...) you know, we have to focus on what we have, okay,(...) versus(...) wanting new things. Okay. Remember when you build new things, you have to maintain them. Okay. There's a cost. That's right. And(...) as the arena,(...) you know,(...) they've got a budget of $200 million,(...) but where's the maintenance program?

(...)

Okay. Where's that money now when three years down the road, five years down the road, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera?(...) Where are we getting the money?

(...)

When you say the maintenance program, are you talking about the concession or the maintenance of the building itself? To keep the lights on, to keep the ice there, to keep whatever? Maintenance.(...) Bottom line maintenance. It's like your house. Okay.

(...)

So there's no-- You've got a mortgage payment,(...) but you also put aside money for your maintenance. For the roof? That's right. You can leak the roof. Plumbing? Plumbing, electrical. Just even some things that are gardening. Yeah. You're getting flowers outside.

(...)

You budget for that sort of stuff. Most people, you should.(...) Exactly.

(...)

You should. So again, I'd go back to, you know, it's nice to have all these nice new shiny things. Yeah.

(...)

But you also have to be able to show how I'm paying for and how I'm going to maintain that.(...) Okay. So is it possible that the-- that(...) things have gotten out of touch with reality?

(...)

I think so.(...) Because-- I think we have to take a step back. Okay.

(...)

You know, growth is good. Growth is great. Yeah.(...) But if you grow too fast-- That can be a problem. That's right. Look what happened in Laurentian. You know, it's not field of dreams. If they build it, they will come. But, you know, a lot of people get off the hook and they move on to other positions because it's just swept under the(...) carpet. So accountability. You know, where's the accountability? Because we've seen people come through this town and leave, and they're not accountable, and they're just off their merry way.

(...)

Where's the accountability downtown? Or where's the accountability with(...) council and with the city itself? Because what you're saying, or from what I'm hearing, it's nice to have new things, but you have to be realistic. I'd like to get a new car. Yeah.

(...)

But it's not a good idea.

(...)

And again, that's why you have an AG. Yeah. Another general(...) that keeps those checks and balances(...) for council. Okay. Didn't the AG get scrapped last year? Yes.

(...)

Oh, that's another rabbit hole. Yes. How much time do you have?

(...)

Tell(...) me what was the role of the Auditor General and why they were good and why they were bad. And then, so anyways, what's the role of the Auditor General? So the Auditor General,(...) he's there to(...) make sure that we're getting value for our dollar. Sounds reasonable. Okay. Yeah.

(...)

And if we're not getting value for our dollar, he comes out and he tells you. So he comes out and tells, so okay, let's say he. He is(...) separate from the city. Okay. Who's he paid(...) by?(...) Well, he's paid by the taxpayer.

(...)

Through the budget? Through the city budget? Through the city budget. Okay. He has a budget for his department.

(...)

He gets his paycheck.

(...)

And then,(...) you know, he puts together a list of things that,(...) you know, we'll look at. You want to look at your roads? Say if we're getting good value for our roads, you know,(...) right now, are we getting good value for Bellingham, New Arena, downtown?

(...)

So he's, could we say he's like the lunchtime chaperone at high school to make sure you don't start throwing food and starting a food fight in the cafeteria? Exactly. Okay. So he's like, he's like a, or a traffic cop just trying to keep things in check. And(...) if there's something that seems to be out of balance,(...) who would the auditor general bring that to? So let's say. You would bring that to council. To council? So the 12 of you plus the mayor would see that. Yes.

(...)

So from what I understand, the AG got canned last at the end of 2025. Right.

(...)

Do you know why he got canned?

(...)

Or why that position was removed? Okay.(...) I(...) mean, it was, it was a $500,000(...) position. Position? Not position. Okay. It was a $500,000 budget for that department. Okay.

(...)

So by removing that budget,(...) then we didn't have to fund it. It was a,(...) an election budget move(...) because now. An election budget. The tax dollars aren't going into that.

(...)

Okay. So because it was an upcoming election year,(...) you say it was an election.

(...)

Yeah, but 500,000. 500,000 is beyond. Yeah. 500 out of the budget is, is around 750,(...) 780. What's, what's the overall budget?(...) How many million? Yeah.(...) Is, is, yeah, it's up there almost 800,000. Almost 800 million. 800 million dollars. So half a million bucks is, is like buying the popcorn at the movie theater.

(...)

It's like 0.3%.(...) Okay. So the auditor general is no longer there and they're the ones who, or that department. How many people are in that department? It was him and another general in that department.

(...)

Yeah. That doesn't make sense because earlier what you said was you don't want to get rid of city staff,(...) but they got rid of somebody got rid of city staff.

(...)

Was it tough to get rid of the auditor general or the AG department? Was it tough to get rid of him? No. How did, how did. That's council of direction. So, you know, if we direct(...) our CEO, our staff to go and do it, they will do it.

(...)

Okay. Um,(...) what(...) was the vote? Uh, I don't, I don't know what it was unless I look it up and I'll put it on the screen here, but how many were for scrapping that department and how many voted to not scrap that department? Do you remember? Uh, so it in their eyes, it was unanimous. Okay. Because I was online. Yeah. Um, I didn't say a thing. Okay. So how can we even pipe up?(...) Did they put you on mute? No, it's just, I mean, what's the purpose of, of, so when you don't vote, okay.

(...)

It's not counted, shouldn't be counted. Okay. Um, but I mean, when you had the rest of council, um, supporting a move like that,(...) my vote is nothing. You still got to put your hand up.

(...)

You know what? I'm doing things more and, you(...) know, showing, uh,(...) showing things differently due to the fact that, you know, here we are spending $3 million downtown, uh, Towne Bivi Square to upgrade the council chambers on the taxpayers dollar. Okay. Did they need to be updated? No.

(...)

I mean, that, that changed, council chamber functioned perfectly. Okay. Uh,(...) you know, can you always make improvements to anything? Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, but when, when we're spending, you know, this kind of money on,(...) on the chambers where we can take that $3 million and, uh, put it into local rows, let's say. Why couldn't they spend two and a half there and still keep the AG? What did the AG,(...) what was the role of the AG where they wanted to scrap it? Like what's the real, the auditor general is like, well, I think everyone should understand what it is. It's making sure that the city is(...) spending their money wisely for the taxpayer. That's right.

(...)

So it was a, so it was just so I get this straight, it was a unanimous council decision to get rid of the auditor general. That's right.

(...)

I don't know how to that. I don't know how that makes sense because sometimes,(...) um,(...) my kid has a fish tank,(...) got his fish tank. It's all proud of it. It's got a fish in it, a little fish, whatever. And he's, you know, there he goes. Then he wanted another fish tank and I asked him, you know, is this a good idea? Do you need another fish tank? Well, I don't need it, but I want it anyways. So he went and bought it with his own money.

(...)

A few weeks later, it was a bad idea. I want to get rid of my fish tank.

(...)

So, you know, I'm not there to absolutely tell him no, but I'm, I'm trying to,(...) you know, from a, uh,(...) from a young teenager, is it a good idea? And you know, when, so when you put your foot down, you're going to get resistance. But if you can ask from different angles, is it a good idea? You know, it's just a fish tank, but it's still a good,(...) he wants to sell it now. So it's going to be for sale,(...) but that's(...) the role of the auditor general to me seems like it absolutely needs to be there.

(...)

Absolutely. For, for a city our size with a budget. We're the biggest city in the North. Yes, we are.

(...)

And the budget and the budget. Okay.

(...)

Yeah, it's great value for your money. It's only half a million dollars. And then if you have a complaint, you call the auditor generally their hotline.(...) Your complaint is dealt with. Okay.

(...)

So it gave people a lot more(...) trust(...) in the city process in the city process, having the AGM now you're that(...) we've lost that trust, you know, you've lost that accountability.

(...)

So yeah, that's,(...) that's one of the priorities coming back is to bring back the AG(...) to instill the trust of the residents once again.

(...)

So yeah, I'm excited. I think there's some great candidates out there. Okay.

(...)

I'm looking at a whole new face of(...) counselors.

(...)

I'm hoping part of it. Okay.

(...)

Because I think it's, it's going to be some good, exciting times and people are going to finally see(...) progress.

(...)

And that's what we need here. They're going to see more value for their money.

(...)

Bill

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